a trap. all right. very good. thank you guys so much for being with us. sam stein, if it's way too early -- go ahead. if it's way too early, what time is it? >> "morning joe" and i think right now it's time for chuck todd. did i guess? front and center. mitt romney marches into battleground virginia to outline his foreign policy vision. if he gets into the white house, we know he'll offer a rhetorical contrast to president obama, but how much space is there on policy? and is this an official break from the bush doctrine? also, the biden ryan debate in kentucky. will the vice president avoid any quote bumps in the road as the president described his own performance over the weekend and how will paul ryan perform on the biggest stage of his career.

plus, you say tomato. i say electoral. find out how some trade decisions could affect the election in some key states. good morning, it's monday, october 8th, 2012. i'm chuck todd. i know some of you are celebrating as if this is some federal holiday. there is no day off when it's 29 days until the november election. if mitt romney is going to be president of the united states, then next week, iowa and ohio will be coin flip races. we're seeing a more confidence mitt romney on the trail. >> we had a little debate earlier this week and i enjoyed myself. you had the chance to hear his answers or non answers. now, of course, days later, we're hearing his excuses. >> but while the romney campaign body language has changed, both are anxiously awaiting the first good post debate polls. those will give us our first

look at the race after the debate and the friday unemployment report. plus, where will romney be when the results of those polls begin to come in. will he be in coin flip races in places like ohio, iowa and wisconsin? where will the president's number be? still sitting at 49 or 50 or have fallen down to 47, 48? national tracks are one thing. battleground states are another. tuesday, romney stumps virginia, then ohio with chris christie in cuyahoga falls. in three straight rallies in florida, he recounted his memories of a 14-year-old boy, david, that he befriended with leukemia. >> i sat down next to him and he said what happens next? and i spoke with him about what i believe happens next. clear eyes, full heart, can't lose. david can't lose.

i love the greatness of the soul of the american people. >> david's parents, members of romney's congregation, spoke at the convention. it's one of those things that you a lot of people have been saying romney needs to do. his sons have been doing it. ann's been doing it, but now, mitt romney himself starting to incorporate some of the personal stories in some of the things he did as head of his church in boston. last night in boston at a fund-raiser, president did a little soul searching of his own when it comes to his campaign. >> everybody here incredible professionals, such great friends and just perform flawlessly. night after night. i can't always say the same. >> and if you didn't get that little subtle hint, the president trieded to put a positive spin on his debate

performance with what's now a well worn phrase. >> back in 2008, everybody always remembers the victory, but they don't always remember the bumps in the road. we made all kinds of mistakes. we goofed up. i goofed up. but the american people carried us forward. >> as the president's listless debate performance, also got the late night treatment. >> excuse me, governor. mr. president? >> i'm sorry. yeah. what's up? >> mr. president, governor romney has just said that he killed osama bin laden. would you care to respond? >> no, you two go ahead. >> the president's advisers did their best sunday to make lemon nad out of lemons, prepared with talking points to make the best of the president's less than

stellar showing. >> governor romney had a masterful performance. >> he delivered a very good performance. >> it was a masterful, theatrical performance. >> george burns said all you need is sincerity. >> again, i'm not going to take away from mitt's masterful theatrical performance. >> do you get the sense about how they were going to refer to romney's performance? theatrical, bringing up george burns, some other actors from the '40s and '50s. vp debate, paul ryan, he's in virginia holed up doing debate prep. joe biden is holed up in delaware doing debate prep. the question's going to be this is more of an affair, how hot does biden go? joe biden's been reading paul ryan's book. today, two days before he meets the president before the.

the debate, romney will attempt to seize on the administration's -- this is by our account his tenth foreign policy speech of the campaign. romney's forays into foreign policy has been a mixed bag. from his rush to criticize the president on egypt and libya before all the facts were known. >> if you had known that the ambassador had died -- >> i'm not going to take hypotheticals about what would have been known. we responded last night to the events that happened in egypt. >> romney's effort to banish his foreign policy credentials with a summer trip was widely panned after romney seemed to insult the british handling of the olympics. his campaign spent weeks trying to explain why he didn't mention the war in afghanistan in his convention speech. today, romney will try again. arguing quote, i know the president hopes for a safer, freer and more pros% middle east allied with the united states. i share this hope, but hope is

not a strategy. it's a message he previewed yesterday on the trail. >> i commit to you i will be a leader. when i'm president, i will take the care that it takes to rebuild our principles and restore the principles that made america so strong. >> but according to excerpts of the speech, almost every policy romney will call for, a two-state solution, free trade, going after terrorists in libya, has been pursued by the obama administration. they're out with an aggressive prebuttle. >> reckless. amateurish. that's what republicans called mitt romney's gaffe filled tour of england, israel and poland, when our u.s. diplomats were attacked in libya, showed a lack of presidential character. if this is how he handles the

world now, just think what mitt romney might do as president. >> in a statement, liz smith says quote it's clear on every measure, mitt romney fails the commander in chief test. well, just about two hours from now, romney will deliver that speech at virginia military institute. peter alexander is traveling with the romney campaign in lexington, virginia and joins me now and peter, this is a speech that is largely about the middle east. we're not hearing a lot about asia, a lot about russia. this is really going to be focused on syria, iran, libya and afghanistan. is it not? >> yeah, i think you're exactly right. going to focus on the middle east and northern africa, libya specifically. mitt romney as you noted, will accuse the president of saying that simple language, that hope is not a strategy. trying to -- harry truman and reagan. this speech is almost dedicated to george marshall. we're here at the hall of valor.

it is in the battleground state of virginia that's so critical right now. there will be some familiar themes that we expect to hear from mitt romney in the speech. he'll be speaking about the need to avert defense cuts. that affects tens of thousands of people potentially here in virginia. he'll focus on the need to reinvest in the military and also to strengthen our relationships with allies overseas. as you noted, there's not a great difference in terms of the actual policies as best we've understood them. one point he will make is on syria. his public position is a little more activist. he'll say among other things, in syria, i will work with our partners to identify those members of the opposition who share our values and assure they attain the arms they need to defeat assad's tanks, helicopters and fighter jets. >> hey, peter, you were with him

all weekend and we did see a decision by the romney campaign to include in the governor's stump more personal stories. of just ways that he worked with members of for instance of his community in boston. >> yeah, i think that's right. three times in all of the events held in florida. obviously as our viewers have seen, he has largely resisted this as a democrat would say. here though, it seems like there's a genuine sense of confidence, a reinvigorated campaign. you experience that when you talk to the crowds as well. it appears to be contagious to the candidate himself. in the past, we saw crowds that were largely anti obama more than pro romney. after the debate performance, they appear to be behind mitt romney and that seems to be fuelling him giving him more confidence to tell his own

story. >> mr. alexander, we'll see you on the trail. thank you, sir. well, mitt romney is hoping to amplify his criticisms of the administration's middle east policy and bolster his own credentials and it's a speech two weeks before the october 22nd foreign policy debate. joining me now is richard williamson, he's a senior foreign policy adviser to the romney campaign. in fact, i'm told the guy that sort of keeps all of the various groups together or at least from fighting too much. thanks for coming on this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> let me start with a simple question here. how is the romney doctrine on foreign policy going to be different from the bush doctrine? >> well, first of all, doctrine is a phrase that professors apply afterwards. his approach, but his approach to foreign policy, that's, that's what this speech is about. that's the big choice that the american people have on the economy. you've got these crippling

deficits, anemic jobs. you've got romney's plan to reverse that. on foreign affairs, you've got a failed foreign policy. yes, they've done more drone attacks, which is good. yes, osama bin laden is dead, which is good. but whether you deal with russia, china or throughout the broader middle east, you have a disaster. we saw that in the killing of the american ambassador in benghazi and a fundamental misunderstanding. >> i want to get to some other issues. i want to get to larger question, which is what is a romney foreign policy? what is going to be different about it than president bush's? less sort of the quote unquote freedom agenda? >> what you're going to have is a foreign policy that's been in the bipartson tradition of strength from kennedy and beyond. one that believes you need a strong economy. you need to have leadership.

america's better off and the world is better off when america leads as "the washington post" editorial said today. there's a vacuum in syria. there's a vacuum in the middle east and forces unfriendly to the united states that have other interests. extremists are filling that vacuum much to our disadvantage and that you need to use our values. this has to go together in a coherent strategy. >> sounds like a return to foreign policy realism if you will. if that's the case, that's what president obama's been doing. >> two things, first, president obama hasn't done that. look at how he has handled iran as it approaches nuclear breakout. a huge advance to nuclear break outand the president's policies have failed. >> so, what would have been different? you're calling for -- >> you've got 30,000 people that

are dead -- >> ambassador -- you're calling -- it's my understanding governor romney's going to call for more sanctions though. would president romney be militarily trying to stop iran? >> well, there's two things i want to point out. you're trying to have romney versus bush, it's romney versus obama and you're saying the om difference is war, which is not true. what you need is resolution, working closely with allies, yes, put more pressure on and make clear that a nuclear iran is unacceptable. as we're closer to a nuclear bre breakout in iran than when obama came to office. why? he wanted to engage. he was quiet during the green revolution while tens of thousands were ash tearily arrested, beaten and some killed. we continued to seek negotiations. he resisted stronger sanctions.

in fact, when senator mendez and senator kirk suggested tougher sanctions, obama opposed them. it was only after congress forced him to that he went forward and he's allowed the u.n. security council, russia and china to determine our policy. all these are acts of weaknesses as opposed to making clear and we haven't worked closely with our allies as evidence by the recent u.n. meeting when the president had time for whoopi goldberg but couldn't meet with netanyahu. >> one of the criticisms, this appears to be management of the arab spring. that is a big part. does governor romney think it was a mistake to push mubarak out? >> what he has said is that we have forces that are of extre extremism and forces of moderation an we should be aligned and help those forces. a difference in egypt is one

that's on the table today. governor romney says we should have conditions. we shouldn't write off a billion dollar debt. >> but going back to mubarak. was that a mistake? does governor romney believe that's a mistake? >> how it was handled was a mistake. >> pushing mubarak out was a mistake? >> let me give you the answer. first of all, for two years, president obama cut support of u.s. assistance for democracy and civil society in egypt, so those who went to tahrir square saw that the united states wasn't on their side. that was a mistake. two, when the revolt began, joe biden said that mubarak was a democrat. the secretary of state said we're with him and he's a reformer. by the time the u.s. took its position, the demonstrators had been in tahrir square for days, there had been police crackdowns and when we said it was time for

mubarak to go, the the reformers had been begun to be crowded out by extremist elements. yes, there's a big difference between anticipating and leading versus not leading, reacting, cutting our traditional support for democracy. that's the record of president obama and that contributed to the mess. >> so, you're saying he should have pushed mubarak out, but done it differently or he shouldn't have done that? >> the people in a country, reagan once said that we should support the march of freedom, but we can't determine its pace. the people in the country determine the pace of the march of freedom. it's humorous to suggest that the united states can determine this, but we should be clear we're on the side of the forces of freedom. we failed that test. president obama failed that test in iran and in egypt for two years plus before mubarak left. >> more to get to, but have to leave it there. thanks for coming on this morning. >> thank you. got a lot more to come

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well, the president's team spent the weekend launching a p preemptive strike. colin call is deputy chair for the obama campaign's national security. he joins me now. thanks for coming on this morning. you put out a memo this morning, you guys are attacking romney, if there are no differences between mitt romney and barack obama policy wise, why attack him? you just don't like the

rhetoric? >> it's swagger, not substance. >> is it an endorsement of your policies? >> i think mitt romney's policies fall into three categories. places where he talks tough, but his policies are identical. iran would fit, egypt, syria, where the substance is very close to the president's. there are those areas where he is tacking back towards the president's position, but it's hard to believe him and there are those areas where he has shortst sharp disagreements. >> this, you guys have been critical and others saying mitt romney is just speaking with a tougher voice. that could be a fair criticism. if there is a perception that the american president isn't going to speak out, isn't going to speak out on iran, isn't that an issue sometimes, particularly when dealing with some of these leaders in the middle east? >> i think the president has been clear in standing up for our values, in holding

governments accountable for protecti protecting americans and going after our enemies. there's no question of leadership. if you look at the polls, they say that the american people have more faith in obama. >> we've heard it from governor romney before about not standing with the green revolution at the time. is that a mistake? president obama wish he had a do over on that? >> if you go back, you'll see he stood up for the universal principles of the speech. >> he was dragged to it and it seemed only after there was a lot of cell phone video. >> we were hearing a lot. i was in the administration at the time working middle east issues at the pentagon. we were hearing a lot from iranian opposition members. don't get too close because it will give them the excuse to put the hammer down on us. there was a real dilemma about getting too close that would allow tehran to do more harm. the course the president chose

was the responsible one. >> in this memo here where you criticize the various parts of romney's foreign policy, you sort of mock the threat of russia versus al-qaeda. but let's take the russia example. it's russia standing in the way of doing anything for syria. doing anything with iran. russia's -- is it not a geopolitical rival? >> i think the reality is more complex on so many issues than mitt romney understands and russia's a perfect example. yes, we have disagreements with the russias. i mean, just look at -- on issues like the northern distribution network that supplies our troops in afghanistan, we could not do that without russian assistance. in terms of iran, we wouldn't be there without the president's reset policy. so, if you look at issue after issue where we require russian cooperation, there are times

when we have common interest. arms control, new start is a good example and -- >> but the middle east is a big disagreement. >> syria, syria, they have been profoundly unhelpful with syria and the obama administration has called the russians out on that. on iran, the russias were instrumental in getting us the u.n. security council resolution in 2010, that put in place unprecedented administrations that the bush administration could only have dreamed of. >> i have to leave it there. former member of the administration, thanks for coming on. >> happy to be here. wall street hit a five-year high. market rundown is next. plus, critical county. live in ohio. one of those 15 counties that may decide the presidential election. but first, today's trivia question. who was the first vice president to not become president?

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so, ohio's been america's battleground state since i don't know when. they have correctly picked the winners of the last elections. no republican has ever won the white house without carrying the state and the last democrat to do it was john kennedy. the swing county of hamilton, which incorporates cincinnati and some suburb, getting a lot of attention from the candidates. by six points for president bush in 2004. how's that for swinging?

joining me now, kelly o'donnell on the ground. if you ever wondered what became of her, she's on the air in cincinnati. what you go? >> you know, chuck, here, people are asking us about two things. who do they think is going to win the election because everybody's talking about it and the fact that the reds are up by two in postseason, so they are very excited here. of the 88 counties in ohio, really only a handful are unpredictable because big part of the state are reliably democrat or republican and tradition would have it that cincinnati would be more conservative, but you saw the big win by the president in '08. in the 2010 election, the county went for the current republican governor. that gave some lift to republicans here who want to undo the losses that they suffered last time. so, we were able to spend a lot of time on the ground talking to voters, many of them talking to voters, the debate. certainly those inclined to vote

for romney. it's firing them up. now, democrats say it took a little while for them to feel some of the passion. they believe they've got it. we went block by block as they were knocking on doors and trying to get the the vote up. so we talked to romney's state director and the local chair. here's how they see the race. >> we've got a lot of people who voted for obama in '08 who were independents in our victory centers saying i'm trying to make up for my vote in '08. >> the energy that's building among the democratic base and among those independents who supported the president four years ago, that's happening again right now. >> and so you get a sense that both sides feel confident. it's really hard to tell, chuck, which way it will go because as we went block by block, we saw u a lot of energy on both sides, so it's about repeating for democrats. about trying to get back to tradition for republicans. chuck? >> we're going to do this one

county at a time if we're lucky. there are not that many swing counties in the battleground states. thank you very much. the world bank has cut its outlook for china. becky quick is here. i imagine fear of china in slow growth will spook the markets today? >> that's what's happening, chuck. we've been watching this morning. we've been coming in near five-year highs. this among, it's a little bit of a different picture. looks like we're opening down by 50 points or so with the dow. the big concern is what's happening with growth around the globe. the world bank cut its growth forecast for china. by 7.7%. and just about every other economy would love the growth, but that is below what the earlier estimates had been. that's a big drop down. you combine that with the financial times with the lead story there this morning being about how the united states seems to be avoiding a global recession for now. but the for now is the key point

people are taking away from this. there are always terrible economies that have a real likely impact that could drag down the u.s. economy. if you look at oil prices today, the only silver lining is that oil prices have been dragged down by these concerned about what's happening on the economy. looks like oil prices are below $90 a barrel. that's great news for everybody unless you're in california. t it's the refinery shutdown. 4.65 is what californians are paying right now. that's a huge concern. governor brown says he's going to be releasing some of these restriks so they can start mixing in the winter blend. hopefully that will bring relief quickly. that's the good news and by the way, did you see notre dame, miami? >> no, i don't know what you're talking about. i've lost connection. i cannot hear you. i've lost connection. >> see you later. up next, food fight over the

obama administration's move to help tomato growers in swing states catch up with mexican competitors. imagine what the gas prices in california would be if california were a swing state. back in 30 seconds. a food fight, literally, is brewing between the u.s. and mexico. we're talking about tomatoes and maybe sour grapes as well. the it's subject of our deep dive today. last week, the obama

administration announced it favored canceling a 16-year-old $3.5 billion tomato trade deal with mexico. the deal encourages imports and has kept tomato prices low. but florida growers say they're so low they can't catch up. the numbers show mexican tomato sales have quadruple since 2000 while florida has seen its cut shrink dramatically. after a flurry of letters from lawmakers, the commerce department decided to repd the trade agreement be scrapped. mexico growers were stunned, upset they hadn't been granted a meeting until after the decision. why did the decision get rushed? presidential politic, the influence of those florida growers might have played just a small role. michael isakoff is nbc's national investigative correspondent. it's an election year and hearing about issues like this,

oh, favoritism of this front for florida. favoritism on that front for ohio. it shouldn't come as a shock and yet, we see it play out every year. four years, excuse me. >> this is a fascinating look about how to use the levers of power of incumbency to help yourself in an election season. in june, as you mentioned, the florida tomato growers filed this petition with the commerce department to tear up a 16-year-old trade agreement with mexico. they say they're being devastateded by the import of mexican tomatoes into the united states. lower costs than florida and then, the politics gets ratcheted up. they get letters talking about the precarious situation of florida tomato growers. senator bill nelson, up for re-election, writes a letter to the commerce department. i believe time is of the essence in this matter.

he says he's talking about the growing season, but you get an election season letter, time is of the essence, debbie wasserman schultz, not a lot of tomato growers in those condos in broward county. she writes a letter to the commerce department on behalf of this and also, shelley brown and dick durbin. why you got workers involved. the worker agreement to help conditions of florida growers, so they also write letters. who gets the letters? that's where you got to follow the dots on this. the top decision maker at commerce market, francisco sanchez, a florida lawyer ran for mayor of tampa. obama campaign bundler in '08. had been a top leader in the hispanic committee for obama. he's the political appointee. he makes the decision. the mexicans are furious. threatening a trade war over this. >> right. i got to leave it there. connecting the dots, but i have

a good guest to follow up on this. thanks much. canceling this trade deal might be good politics, but could be bad for your bottom line, particularly if you do like those vegetable like fruits called tomato. frank laven, ceo of export now. as well as the former u.s. ambassador to singapore and a reagan white house political director. if the obama white house does not agree to cancel this trade deal, then you have a whole bunch of people say he's not looking out for the interest of florida. so you are in a political catch 22 when you're in a situation like this. so explain how this pops up. >> sure. say that any constituency in a swing state misses the moment to sound the alarm. there's something you can extract from federal government, you've got a 30-day window. >> you've been in the situation yourself. >> absolutely. and no question that every group in this case, tomato growers in florida, they've got an enormous

incenti incentive. now, how valid that claim is is debatable, but we know what the u.s. government's going to do. >> you were at the commerce department. commerce department is always a mix of political and trade issues. how often does a decision like this preliminary decision like this made and then it ends up getting reversed? >> i wouldn't be surprised if the long run trend doesn't change anything at all. there might be an aberration for 30 days through the election, but look, if in fact the mexican tomato growers are always more efficient or effective, over time, they're going to dominate the market. >> i gree up in a part of florida when they say i remember when there were tomato fields all over here. let's move on to the election itself. you are an ambassador in the bush administration. do you understand the romney foreign policy? >> yeah -- i'm not a romney -- >> i know you're not.

>> but here's the point. the world is better off and america's better off if there's leadership from the united states. >> you think rhetoric matters is what you're saying. the policy differences aren't much. >> might not be material much, but i think u.s. policy, russia, trade is going differ. i think policy in the mideast is different and starting with your friends, working with the industrial democracies, showing leadership is an important ability block that romney is articulating that we're not seeing. >> i'm going to be a cynic here, tough on china talk. every presidential candidate talks tough on china. in office, never as tough as their rhetoric. >> 20 years ago was tough on japan. i think it's -- >> even clinton was going to be tough on china and wasn't. >> sure. he really overshot. he used the butchers of beijing and brought a lot of issues.

i think our trade relation with china are generally positive, but there is an area of malfeasance. there is room for improvement. >> too aggressive? >> i don't know. one thing he clearly decided, he's not going to let obama outflank hill on that issue. here's the difference. both can be a bad cop china, but romney's also a good cop to work out a positive trade agenda to grow the economy as well. >> let me ask you about ohio. it's your home state. what's been happening there? maybe things have shrunk. what were you thinking? >> i still get the sense obama's ahead. i think that might have been a obama high point. i think he was trending down, then the debate happened. i just came back from a few days in ohio. i think he's outspending romney on tv there. i think they both have a very strong ground game.

sherrod brown's probably a point or two up on that as well. so i think it comes to the next two debates. it's a swing state. results will be within 1% of the national results. >> item going to hold you there. virginia will be the one that's closer. always good to have you here. thank you, sir. our monday political panel is here to kick off the week, but first, it's columbus day. you know what that means? this is the day that columbus sailed a ocean blue and did not have time for soup. the mess is closed. don't forget to check out our blog. we update it all the time now with good stuff, so visit it a lot. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know.

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we're still waiting for the

first round of credible first debate polls. in the meantime, president is trying to bounce back. president for the center of american progress and chief correspondent for the "washington post," dan balls. listen to the president yesterday and i want you to respond because it was interesting sort of him comparing 2008 to today. take a listen. we don't have it. my apologies. it's a full screen. there are times, sometimes when like in 2008 where politics has just been trending. it's kind of cool to be an obama supporter. this is the president saying this. and there are some folks who got in early and they can go around and say i told you so. then there are times when you have to just grind it out because it's hard. that's a different president obama.

and that certainly does describe the 2012 campaign. >> yes, i think every american feels like this two-year campaign isn't right, but i think the president had a great day on thursday. came out swinging. i think he can be honest about the fact he didn't have a great debate performance. i think everyone acknowledges that and put some pressure in the next couple of week, but at the end of the day, the fundamentals about this economy are moving in his direction. >> but dan, the fundamentals of the campaign, has that been changed? >> it has helped governor romney enormously to have that performance in denver. it gave the romney campaign, a republican base just a jolt of energy they all badly needed. it probably did change it somewhat, but what we don't know is whether it's changed it back to where we thought it would be, which is a pretty close race to the end or whether it's really put governor romney in a position to overtake the president.

>> is it back to a close race, but the president has these battleground state advantages or did it really throw the map up. that's what we don't know. >> we had a couple of days of gallup debate, it will be interesting to see some of those state polls as they come along. i think those races were all tightening before the debate. >> there was some evidence that everything was moving back. >> which you would expect in a race like this. i think that probably has accelerated that. i would say however that i think that the obama people have made a very strange choice post debate, to some out calling romney a lair, in essence with a sour grapes. i don't think that's going to help them with independents and it's not going to work in the debate itself. >> but isn't that the issue right here now is that there is sort of this, this has been an issue ongoing. predebate, which there are important constituencies in the democratic party who are less

interested in this election than republican constituencies than key ones. seniors versus voters, whether it's latinos, there has been this issue. so, has that been the strategy, trying to buck up the base? >> let me say a few things. first, national polls, the president has always done worse. >> i buy there is a split between those two. >> the president has generally done better in swing states because of the amount of resources. so, i don't think we should democratic panic, should not occur because of that and i think we could feel pretty positive. even with an even national poll, president's taken a hard hit and i think he's ahead in swing states still. on this issue of energy and enthusiasm, i think there was a challenge for the president the month before the election, the debate, that people thought the campaign was over and you were seeing people not as energized now.

now, i wouldn't have had that debate performance to get them energized, but i think -- >> that is some interesting lemonade you're making over there. is there any sugar in it at all? >> i think as tight election, you'll see people come out resources. >> is the biggest thing out of this postdebate for -- peter alexander said people at the romney debates to fire the president. now, they're as a for mitt romney. there's -- people showing up to be for mitt romney and to be against the president. >> well, that's hugely helpful if it lasts. there was a little bit of that when he picked paul ryan. then went away. a little bit of that right after the debate. two more presidential and one vice presidential debate. >> okay. we'll talk about the debate after the break but first we asked you, our trivia question, the first vice president to not become president, the answer,

should have gotten this. of course, aaron burr. the nation's third vice president under thomas jefferson and of course remembered for the guy that killed the treasury secretary in the duel. e-mail us for the trivia question. we'll be right back. safe driver, multi-car, paid in full -- a most fulsome bounty indeed, lord jamie. thou cometh and we thy saveth! what are you doing? we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have any of those homeowners' discounts? here we go. thank you. he took my shield, my lady. these are troubling times in the kingdom. more discounts than we knoweth what to do with. now, that's progressive.

let's bring back our panel. vice presidential debate, is it that important, dan balz? >> yes. >> why? >> absolutely. because of what happened last week. >> only because of that? >> no. because of paul ryan and paul ryan budget. >> it important for the future of paul ryan? he can't lay an egg, lose to biden. >> sure. >> the punching bag of the right. if you lose to joe biden what good are you? >> exactly. >> low pressure on him. win or lose, paul ryan at this point has a bright future in the

republican party. i think it's important for another reason. that is, we'll have a foreign policy speech today by mitt romney and that issue's going to come up, the first major confrontation after that speech and an area we see some foreign policy tangling for the first time. >> joe biden, what's the temperature of the porridge? >> we'll go with just right. >> my point is, what do you think that -- what's the advice he's getting? if you're in that room, when's the advice? how much more aggressive than the president? >> more aggressive than the president but i mean he has a lot of opportunities with the ryan budget. the challenge for the president is he didn't take, didn't hold mitt romney to his positions. he can hold paul ryan to his positions, vice president can hold him to his positions without, you know, being seen as overly aggressive. needs smiles and jokes as he does it. that is a target-rich environment and i think he should take the targets. >> what kind of vibe do you

expect? >> aggressive biden. >> shameless plugs? >> i'm going to plug eli lake, all over this libya story. >> yes, he has. >> another one today on information that e-mails come paining about the security of the embassy there. he's a must read every day. >> security situation and all fingers point to the state department. >> i'm going to be original and plug dean progress at 150,000 -- 160,000 followers and hoping for to 0,000. >> twitter? >> yes. i'm on twitter. on twitter. >> help you with the plug. >> issues week of "the washington post" every day we're doing a big take-out two pages on the differences between the candidates on the issues. >> today is? >> economy. >> thank you very much. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown. "tomorrow, four weeks until election day and another way to show off bells and whistles but we have something new. the new decision act. bye-bye.

this is your business travel forecast. chilly air will continue to sit there and with sunshine in the afternoon. still only in the 50s today in the great lakes. better kansas city to minneapolis. the east coast, clouds will be moving your way in the day. we'll see a chance of showers especially in the afternoon hours carolinas to washington, d.c. enjoy. losing weight clicked for us when we realized

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